From Bullied Behind Bars To Freedom: The Road To A Life Of Authenticity And Faith With Matt Melvin

Dawn: 00:00:00

Welcome to another episode.

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Today, we have Matthew Melvin with us.

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Matthew is the author of Bullied

Behind Bars, a powerful first-hand

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account that explores the emotional

and psychological realities of

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bullying, survival, and personal

transformation inside the prison system.

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Through his story, Matthew brings

awareness to the human side of

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incarceration, while sharing

messages of resilience, faith,

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perseverance, and redemption.

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Passionate about inspiring others

through honesty and lived experience,

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he uses his platform to encourage

people to overcome adversity and find

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purpose through life's challenges.

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Welcome, Matthew, or

would you prefer Matt?

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Matt: I prefer Matt,

otherwise I think you're

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Dawn: my mother.

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Well, we don't wanna think that.

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How are you doing today?

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Matt: I'm blessed and highly favored.

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Dawn: Awesome.

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I love that response.

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So our first question for all of

our guests is to share with us what

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led you to do what you do today?

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Matt: I'm an author, activist, survivor,

thriver, and most importantly, a

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disciple of Jesus Christ My life

was out of control prior to: 2004

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where I worked at a car dealership.

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They didn't pay me my commissions,

and I impulsively chose to try to

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sell one of their cars, got caught.

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Instead of going through

the mental health court,

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I went through the traditional

court, came out with a record,

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couldn't pass a background check.

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I used other people's information to work.

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I did the work.

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The government pursued me for six

years, got a grand jury indictment

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against me in 2016, and I did 18

months in 10 institutions, four states.

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That's where I wrote my book, Bully

hind Bars My book came out in: 2022

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So my mission is to encourage

people to take off those masks.

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When I wrote my book, that was, here I

am, accept me or not, what other people

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think of me is none of my business.

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Before that, who I was at work,

who I was in the world was very

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different, and I was trying to appeal

to other people, and whenever we do

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that, we'll always be disappointed.

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Dawn: Absolutely.

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What I hear is that you wore masks

for who you were in front of.

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So in essence, there was this

inauthenticity, and yet when you

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went through the prison system, you

actually were like, "I'm writing this

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book and I am showing up my full and

authentic self from this point forward.

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I don't have these masks anymore."

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Matt: Absolutely.

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And I would encourage anybody

who's wearing masks to check

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in with yourself and always ask

yourself, "Is this serving me?

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How is this serving me?"

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And if it's not serving you,

my suggestion is to change it.

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No one else can change you.

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The only person that can

determine your happiness is you.

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If you're in a bad

relationship, get out of it.

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If you're in a bad work

relationship, get out of it.

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It's not going to change.

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Giorgia: I love that question because

often people are wearing those masks

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is because they believe that in some

way that mask is serving them, right?

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if I'm being a people pleaser,

for example, I'm a recovery people

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pleaser, generally thought, "Oh,

I'm being so helpful and so kind.

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So…

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that's how I'm getting love and approval."

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Or if you are the fixer, you wanna

fix everything, you're wearing those

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masks because you think that, I mean,

it is giving you something, right?

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even if it's just the feeling of being

a good person because you are helping

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other people, supporting other people.

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So it's really powerful, the

question that you asked, because

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it forces us to think that, "Hmm,

I am getting something out of it."

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At the same time, the price that I'm

paying for wearing that mask is too

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big, and there will be consequences that

in the moment I don't see, but could

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actually lead me down a very dark path.

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so can you, share a bit more about that?

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Matt: More about wearing masks?

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Giorgia: About it, 'cause people

think that, Mm, maybe I am wearing

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a mask, at the same time I am getting

something out of that," and they don't

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connect the price that they're gonna

pay afterwards for wearing the mask.

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Matt: There's always a price to

pay whenever we're pretending

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to be somebody that we aren't.

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We are robbing ourself of integrity,

honesty, vulnerability when we don't

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come to the world as as who we are.

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I want people in my life who

are willing to be vulnerable.

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there's always a risk.

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I think about my father 20 years ago.

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He could've started a business, instead

he chose the road more traveled.

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You know that book, The Road

Less Traveled by Robert Frost?

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Mm-hmm.

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He chose that safe path.

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Anybody who's done well in

business has always taken a risk

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Dawn: Absolutely.

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So can you share a little bit about

the experiences you had while in

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the prison system that supported

you in writing this book that you

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have written, Bullied Behind Bars?

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Matt: I don't think there was anything

that I experienced in prison that

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would support my writing the book.

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I believe that based on my experiences

from getting raped, being assaulted by a

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sex offender, being assaulted, having my

journal entries stolen, Ostracized, told

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that I was not worthy, I was not valuable,

put in solitary confinement because the

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inmates would lie and tell them, the

guards, that I tried to proposition them.

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All of this was not true.

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And so the reason I wrote my story

was because I wanted to share

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what goes on behind those bars.

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It's not what the show 60 Days

In sensationalizes it to be.

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Dawn: Okay.

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Yeah, I think that, well, Giorgia

and I, we have a philosophy,

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we have a way of thinking that

everything happens for us, not to us.

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Mm-hmm.

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To support us in our life's

mission, our life's vision.

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How do we gonna support other people?

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What is the legacy we're

going to leave behind?

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And what I hear you saying here is

that all of these horrific things that

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happened to you behind bars led you to

write this book that is basically an open

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book, no pun intended, of how people are

actually treated in the system, and how

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that shows up after you exit the system.

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And really being that catalyst to say,

"It's not like what you're seeing on TV."

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It really is raw and real and ugly.

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And I think that this is something that

can really support our listeners, even

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if they've never been incarcerated.

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We do have one person that we

did interview in the past who was

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incarcerated and shared that when he

went into the prison system, he really

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thought about this book by Victor

Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning.

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And so his whole experience there

was, how can I find meaning in

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this that doesn't destroy me?

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And so-

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Matt: That's the important thing.

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Dawn: Yeah.

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Matt: I always tell people, " Keep busy."

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I think about the people in the

Bible who sinned, Eve and David.

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there were, many, many other

people, but oftentimes when people

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sin, it's because they're idle.

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Idle mind is a devil's playground.

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Dawn: Mm-hmm.

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Absolutely.

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Matt: And I thought it was important about

the fact that you said that life happens

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for us, not to us, because

that's empowerment.

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When you think about the other

way, it's a victimhood mentality.

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And I go back to a employer I

actually left because she was

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always blaming everybody else.

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And when I told her, "Stop

blaming everybody else for your

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problems," she then threatened

me with a restraining order.

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Dawn: Yeah.

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And some of us, we don't take feedback

well, and that's just in general, and

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some of us don't wanna look in the mirror.

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We're happy to do this.

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And the thing that we also teach is when

you point the finger at somebody else,

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you have three pointing back at you.

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And I always say, "That's why my father

pointed like this," with all fingers

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pointing out so nothing came back to him.

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At the same time, it's really

important that what we see in other

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people it's important to understand

that what we see in other people

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is either in us or we desire it.

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And so every time somebody is

complaining to me about someone

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else, I ask them, "What is it in them

that's in you that you don't like?"

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Or, "What is it in them that

actually inspires you, yet

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you don't wanna admit it?"

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And I give examples for myself

in reference to this, like

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people who are really bubbly and

happy and joyful all the time.

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If I'm like, "They get on my nerves,"

and it's because subconsciously

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I wanna be that way and not worry

about what anybody else thinks, yet

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the analytical side of me is like,

"Why are they acting like a child?"

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And so it really is that important

thing to look back at ourselves

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when we are saying, "You did this.

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You did that.

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How could you have done this?"

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Because we are, in a way, sourcing

this behavior, as well as we

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usually also have this behavior.

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She didn't wanna hear what you had to say.

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She wasn't ready for the truth.

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Matt: The truth is tough, it's

brutal, and it hurts sometimes.

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But I believe in having

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friendships with people that are capable

of taking the truth, and not everybody

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is capable of handling the truth

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Giorgia: Yeah, absolutely

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Matt: That's why I think it's very

important to find friends that can support

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you, and find accountability partner.

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I've said that for years.

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And your accountability partner

should not be your best friend, and

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your accountability partner holds

you accountable for what you say.

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Giorgia: That's so true.

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Absolutely.

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And you shared with us some

horrific things that happened to

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you when you were incarcerated.

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I also wondering Did you have any,

maybe friends is a strong word, did

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you actually have people as well that

some relationships that you formed

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that supported you during that time?

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Matt: Great question.

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I don't get that, asked that a lot.

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I formed two friendships with two

amazing spiritual mentors that

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have really guided me in my life.

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It's incredible.

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One of my favorite men to speak about

is a man named Deacon Gerry Scilla.

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, Deacon Gerry Scilla Worked full-time

at IBM, supported a family, and

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volunteered to go to both Dannemora

for a long time, he's not going

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to Dannemora anymore, and St.

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Albans as a volunteer.

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He has gone, I believe, for almost

20-plus years as a volunteer.

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He sacrifices time with his wife

every Friday night to go and do prison

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ministry, which is not easy by any

means Yet the priest at his church

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has gone once and considers that-

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valuable.

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Anybody can go once.

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Dawn: Yeah.

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one question that I have for you,

because initially you mentioned being a

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follower of Jesus Christ, did that happen

while you were in the prison system?

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when was your awakening that Jesus

Christ died for your sins and,

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that led you into Christianity?

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Matt: It was actually about eight

months before my incarceration

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Yes.

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Dawn: How did that support you

having that relationship with Jesus?

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How did that support you

while you were incarcerated?

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Matt: Wanted to go back to my story

about how God had transformed my life.

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In August 2015, I was driving on

495 in the middle lane going 72

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miles an hour, which is fairly

slow for me, I've been known to go

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130, when a Lexus SUV came down an

embankment, crossed in front of my car.

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by the grace of God, I was saved, I was

protected, and that was the moment that

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I believe God was drawing a line in the

sand saying, "You're either gonna do my

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will, or you're gonna do your own will.

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You're gonna lie, cheat,

and steal, be inauthentic."

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And I didn't want that for my life.

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I was a lukewarm Christian

for most of my life.

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I was going to church on Sunday,

and then going back to being

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deceptive, dishonest, stealing.

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And when I finally admitted that I

had a problem, just like the big book

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says, Bill's book of 12 steps, those

12 steps can apply to any addiction:

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stealing, drugs, alcohol, anything

that you're going through, codependency

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That's where my life started changing.

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And while I was in prison, instead of

complaining and screaming, I immersed

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myself in every single Bible study that

was available, from Jehovah's Witness,

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Christian Science, Scientology, Catholics,

Christians, and became very knowledgeable

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about what the other cults were teaching.

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I have a lot of friends that I

will say, for example, "Who is L.

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Ron Hubbard?"

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And they have no idea.

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And it's astonishing to me because

if you're gonna go out in the

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battlefield and one doesn't know who L.

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Ron Hubbard is, how can you help a

Scientologist get out of the cult?

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You can't.

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You have to be able to speak the language.

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Dawn: I like your, I'm gonna call

it coming to Jesus moment, because

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literally, you said this SUV came

right across in front of you, right?

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And the way that you took it was,

"This is the line in the sand.

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I can either continue down this way of

life that I have created for myself,

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or I can choose to say I'm gonna

follow Christ from this point forward."

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And for me, as a believer in Christ as

well, and that he died for my sins, it's

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like me having him, I have that freedom.

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I know that he's the person who died

for me, that I can be absolved of

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my sins because of him, that he was

this perfect being who walked this

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planet, and it doesn't matter to me if

someone else believes the same thing.

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I accept that other people

have different beliefs.

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I still am gonna share that

this is my belief, and it's

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okay that you have your belief.

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At the same time, as followers of

Christ, in the Bible it says that

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we are to create followers for him,

that we are to reach all the corners

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of the earth and spread his message.

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And so I also think that

that part is important.

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And again, so many people have these

experiences of coming to Jesus moments,

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and yet they ignore them, right?

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And you said, "I'm not ignoring this."

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And I love also that you said while

you were in the prison system, you

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didn't just stick to one religion.

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You wanted to hear about all of them

and see where could you grow the best,

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and I think that that is one thing that

so many people don't do these days.

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They just, "Oh, I was raised

Baptist, so I'm gonna stay Baptist

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because that's what I know," and

then they admonish and ostracize all

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of the other Christian religions.

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So I think that's really a testament

to who you be by being open and,

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forthcoming and saying Hey, I'm open

to seeing what's gonna work for me."

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And I really think that

is a great way of being.

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Matt: I think as followers of Jesus,

we need to listen more than we talk.

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I've always said that.

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A lot of people, all they do is talk.

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And for me, I listen more than I talk.

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I can't help somebody unless I

understand what they're going through

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Giorgia: Yeah.

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Absolutely.

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I recently went back to university

studying psychology, and one of the papers

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that I worked on recently was about,

prisons in the UK being overcrowded.

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And the media portraying this idea

that it's overcrowding because crime

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is rising, there are more criminals.

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actually looking at the data is what

happened was that lots of people are

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getting increasingly harsher sentences

and longer sentences for smaller crimes.

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So instead of rehabilitating

people, we are punishing them.

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and this perpetuates the stereotype

that if you go to jail, you are some

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kind of monster, you deserve punishment,

and you deserve horrible things.

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Whereas actually even listening

to your story and who you

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are, that's not the case.

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It's something that there are no bad

people, there are just bad behaviors,

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and anyone can make a mistake and

have their entire life changed.

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So I love that one of the things

that you bring and that you share

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is about the human side as well of

incarceration and and of prisoners.

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They are human beings that deserve

respect, that they are not bullied.

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So can you share more about this?

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Matt: About being bullied in prison?

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Giorgia: Well, I think A

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a big reason why all these hor-

horrific things are going in prison

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is in partly because prisoners are not

seen as human, and that's not right.

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That's not okay.

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So can you talk about the human

side of how we should reform people,

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support people in a reformation

as opposed to punishment?

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Matt: Louisiana locks up more

people than any other state,

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yet the crime is no different.

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We know from facts that putting somebody

in a cold institution, giving them a cold

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bed, three meals, that serves nobody.

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There are people that should

be institutionalized, violent

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offenders, no question.

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However, there is a clear majority of

people that are in prison that should not.

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The other big issue is that once a

person comes out, they have this record

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that stays with them forever, which

affects their ability to get a job,

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find housing, adopt a child, own a

weapon to defend themselves, vote, and

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the list just goes on and on and on.

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The other issue is that when

you're convicted of a crime,

311

: 00:20:07

you can't serve on a jury.

312

: 00:20:09

And they always tell people

this is a jury of your peers.

313

: 00:20:13

Mm-hmm.

314

: 00:20:14

It's not a jury of the defendant's peers.

315

: 00:20:16

It's a jury of the judge's peers-

Mm-hmm … the lawyer's peers

316

: 00:20:21

Dawn: That's interesting

because I never knew that.

317

: 00:20:23

one thing that was coming to my mind

as Giorgia was asking this question

318

: 00:20:27

about basically dehumanizing behavior

that people who are incarcerated can

319

: 00:20:33

receive is, a book written by Joe

Vitali called, Zero Limits, and there

320

: 00:20:39

is a psychologist from Hawaii who

treated a maximum security prison by

321

: 00:20:45

never even actually seeing the people.

322

: 00:20:47

Are you familiar with this

book or this, situation?

323

: 00:20:52

No.

324

: 00:20:52

So, I'll call him Dr.

325

: 00:20:54

E because I cannot say his name.

326

: 00:20:58

it's a big, long Hawaiian name, so

even Joe Vitale refers to him as Dr.

327

: 00:21:02

E.

328

: 00:21:03

And basically, what he did was he

went into this maximum security prison

329

: 00:21:06

in Hawaii, and Every single person

before him left within months because

330

: 00:21:13

of the aggression, the attacks.

331

: 00:21:16

Even people who worked

there didn't come every day.

332

: 00:21:19

They called out sick all the time because

it was just such a horrible place to be.

333

: 00:21:23

What he did was he just looked at every

single person's file every single day,

334

: 00:21:28

and he said four things while looking

at that person's file: "I love you.

335

: 00:21:33

I'm sorry.

336

: 00:21:34

Please forgive me.

337

: 00:21:35

Thank you."

338

: 00:21:37

This is also what he said.

339

: 00:21:38

They would repaint the walls in

this prison, and the paint would

340

: 00:21:43

be peeling off within weeks.

341

: 00:21:45

The paint would not stay on the walls.

342

: 00:21:48

Even the building itself

did not feel safe.

343

: 00:21:52

And over time, the paint

started to stay on the walls.

344

: 00:21:56

The people started to show up to work.

345

: 00:21:57

The prisoners were no longer needing

to walk around with their handcuffs on.

346

: 00:22:02

It became a safe place, and almost every

single person that was incarcerated there

347

: 00:22:08

was released back to regular society.

348

: 00:22:11

There were a handful of people that were

transferred to a couple other prisons.

349

: 00:22:16

at the same time, when we think of

the dehumanization of another person,

350

: 00:22:23

instead of thinking, "This is another

human being who deserves love, who

351

: 00:22:26

deserves forgiveness, who doesn't

deserve for me to have an idea about

352

: 00:22:31

them just because they've been in

prison, and that's their identity.

353

: 00:22:35

Who deserves for me to say

thank you for being alive.

354

: 00:22:38

You deserve to be on this planet

no different than I do," right?

355

: 00:22:42

And that shifting everything, and I just

thought of that when she was talking

356

: 00:22:46

about what you experienced in prison.

357

: 00:22:49

I cannot imagine having that

happen, I mean, I know it happens.

358

: 00:22:55

I just can't maybe say don't want

to imagine it happening because

359

: 00:23:01

you're a human being.

360

: 00:23:03

And yet to be treated so aggressively,

not just by people who are peers in

361

: 00:23:10

prison, also by the people who were

supposed to protect you in prison.

362

: 00:23:16

They were putting you in, solitary

confinement instead of listening to

363

: 00:23:21

you and saying, "I didn't do that."

364

: 00:23:23

Where were they protecting you

from what was going on in prison?

365

: 00:23:27

How has that experience with having

people who have this power, because

366

: 00:23:33

that's what it is, they have this

power to either protect you or walk

367

: 00:23:36

away, how has that either shaped

or supported or not supported in

368

: 00:23:42

the writing of the book, supported

or changed your mindset on things?

369

: 00:23:46

what effect did that have on you?

370

: 00:23:50

Matt: It's a tough question to answer.

371

: 00:23:52

I would say that it's people are

people, and I have an old saying that

372

: 00:23:59

most people only wanna be friends with

you as long as there's some benefit,

373

: 00:24:02

usually financial, and once the benefit

goes away, so does the friendship.

374

: 00:24:06

Unfortunately, a lot of people have

this mindset, "What can you do for me?"

375

: 00:24:13

How can you help me instead

of how can I help you?

376

: 00:24:19

Giorgia: Mm-hmm.

377

: 00:24:19

Matt: Once you help somebody else, it

will return 10 times more than if you have

378

: 00:24:26

this notion, what can somebody do for me

379

: 00:24:33

Giorgia: Yeah, that is so beautiful,

and that's the foundation of

380

: 00:24:36

everything that we teach as well,

to always be in the serving, serving

381

: 00:24:40

mode giving as opposed of taking.

382

: 00:24:43

So can you share with us more about,

just about your book and what can people

383

: 00:24:47

expect to find when they read your book?

384

: 00:24:51

Matt: My book is vulnerability, raw.

385

: 00:24:54

I share my story from being bullied

as a child to the situation at

386

: 00:24:59

the car dealership My experience

in federal prison, there's not

387

: 00:25:05

a lot of life after I got out.

388

: 00:25:09

The challenges have not really changed.

389

: 00:25:13

I mean, I'm still

struggling to find a job.

390

: 00:25:15

The difference today versus back then

is I have a better relationship with

391

: 00:25:22

Jesus, I do everything to service

God, and I have a strong understanding

392

: 00:25:27

of what the other sects, cults teach

people so I can help people come to God.

393

: 00:25:35

I had a conversation with an individual

yesterday that was a Buddhist, and

394

: 00:25:40

he didn't really understand who Jesus

was, and I was trying to educate him.

395

: 00:25:44

He didn't seem to really understand.

396

: 00:25:47

here's the thing, in order to

get help, somebody has to first

397

: 00:25:50

admit they have a problem.

398

: 00:25:53

My life has become unmanageable,

I need Jesus Christ.

399

: 00:25:56

Jesus came for the sick.

400

: 00:25:59

There has to be a need in

somebody's life to have God come in.

401

: 00:26:04

If there's no need or they're under

this false impression that they've

402

: 00:26:07

got it all figured out, all the

spiritual teaching, all the spiritual

403

: 00:26:13

guidance in the world, it does nothing

404

: 00:26:18

My advice is to seek

counsel from older people.

405

: 00:26:22

I go back to 2 Chronicles, I believe

it's 10:8, where Rehoboam, instead of

406

: 00:26:30

seeking out wisdom from the elders,

he instead sought out counsel from

407

: 00:26:37

people that were his own age, that

just affirm what he wanted to hear.

408

: 00:26:43

Mm-hmm.

409

: 00:26:44

Find counsel with men and women

that will tell you the truth,

410

: 00:26:49

rather than just appease whatever

sin that you're engaging in

411

: 00:26:57

There's story after story about

how different kings tried to

412

: 00:27:05

Get affirmation from yes people.

413

: 00:27:08

Yes, yes, Your Highness, you're right.

414

: 00:27:10

Do not have people in your life

that will just tell you what

415

: 00:27:14

you want to hear, itchy ears.

416

: 00:27:16

Find people in your life that

will offer critical feedback and

417

: 00:27:23

hopefully they can use I statements.

418

: 00:27:26

Nothing drives me crazy than when I listen

because I listen intently to what somebody

419

: 00:27:30

has to say, and if they continue to use

you, we, they statements, it shows me that

420

: 00:27:35

they cannot take ownership for their life.

421

: 00:27:38

It's very easy to use

you, we, they statements.

422

: 00:27:40

It's a lot more powerful

to use I statements.

423

: 00:27:44

Dawn: Yeah, absolutely.

424

: 00:27:45

We have a trainer that,

If any of us in the…

425

: 00:27:49

So I'm gonna say we.

426

: 00:27:50

If any of us in the training would say,

"You know, like, you, you, you, you,

427

: 00:27:55

you," and we're recounting a situation

that is reflective of my life, not

428

: 00:28:00

her life, not the trainer's life.

429

: 00:28:02

The trainer would be like, "Do

you have a mouse in your pocket?

430

: 00:28:05

'Cause, that wasn't my life.

431

: 00:28:07

I can't tell you that I know

what you're talking about.

432

: 00:28:10

So you can say from the I

or you can stop speaking."

433

: 00:28:15

And she was very direct about that.

434

: 00:28:17

And so even though occasionally we

still speak from that perspective, we do

435

: 00:28:22

our best to come from, "My perspective

is," "I this," "My experience is,"

436

: 00:28:28

that kind of thing instead of you.

437

: 00:28:32

The other thing with you is

it can feel very, accusatory.

438

: 00:28:39

And in that respect, nobody wants to

feel like they are being accused or

439

: 00:28:45

they're being judged or they're being,

treated in a way that isn't kind.

440

: 00:28:51

And, we go back to the pointing

the finger at somebody, and you

441

: 00:28:54

have three pointing back at you.

442

: 00:28:56

It really is…

443

: 00:28:58

it's a practice to come from that place

of saying, "My experience," "I feel,"

444

: 00:29:03

instead of, "You made me feel" kind

of thing, or, "You are X, Y, and Z."

445

: 00:29:09

Because the way a person shows up for you

may be completely different than the way

446

: 00:29:14

that they show up for somebody else, and

your experiences can be polar opposite.

447

: 00:29:19

And I do want to acknowledge you

for how intently you listen and how

448

: 00:29:23

you take that time to pause and then

respond versus " Oh, let me just say

449

: 00:29:31

something because I'm on a podcast."

450

: 00:29:33

And I really do appreciate that.

451

: 00:29:36

Matt: When I did a men's weekend, we did

something called reflective listening.

452

: 00:29:41

It was one of my favorite

things that I've ever done.

453

: 00:29:43

And we would be in a circle, it was

probably about 25 or 30 of us, and

454

: 00:29:49

one man would share, and then he

would pick anybody who hasn't shared

455

: 00:29:55

to reflect what he said, not, not-

parrot everything that he said, but

456

: 00:30:02

start off with what I hear you saying

457

: 00:30:04

Giorgia: Mm-hmm

458

: 00:30:06

Matt: And try to be concise.

459

: 00:30:09

It was unbelievable how many

men said, "Don't pick me," or

460

: 00:30:15

weren't even paying attention.

461

: 00:30:16

And then I did actually watch another

individual who was taking notes,

462

: 00:30:19

which I thought was interesting.

463

: 00:30:21

But I think that if you're just paying

attention, you should be able to

464

: 00:30:26

gain a couple of nuggets that that

individual just said It's an important

465

: 00:30:31

exercise because I think a lot of…

466

: 00:30:34

And, I want to use men, because

that's heavily my experience.

467

: 00:30:39

Men are trying to think of something

clever to say rather than listening

468

: 00:30:46

to what another man is sharing.

469

: 00:30:50

Dawn: Yeah.

470

: 00:30:50

That intimacy thing, has a tendency to

have a little bit of a block for some men.

471

: 00:30:56

I think if I look back at the way my

father raised me and my brothers, not

472

: 00:31:01

just them, also me, "Quit your crying or

I'll give you something to cry about."

473

: 00:31:08

And so you have just taught that

child, boy or girl, that showing

474

: 00:31:13

emotion is not appropriate.

475

: 00:31:16

And so I would say as a woman, though,

it has been easier for me to step into

476

: 00:31:22

being able to do that because I am

surrounded by women who also do that.

477

: 00:31:29

Not to say that I was always that way.

478

: 00:31:32

I do know for my brothers,

it's significantly harder.

479

: 00:31:35

and so it really is, I think, the way that

we are raised, the way that we are spoken

480

: 00:31:42

to by whoever the people are that are our

mentors as we are children growing up,

481

: 00:31:47

that really either supports or negates

how we show up in life and how we are able

482

: 00:31:53

to take in information and respond to it.

483

: 00:31:57

And I would probably be like

the person that taking no- takes

484

: 00:32:00

some notes, just because it gets

basically burned into my brain.

485

: 00:32:06

even when I'm in school, when I was

in university, I took copious notes

486

: 00:32:11

while the professor was teaching.

487

: 00:32:13

I never read the book.

488

: 00:32:15

Never.

489

: 00:32:15

I never studied for exams.

490

: 00:32:17

I went in and I did them and I aced

them, and people were like, "Do

491

: 00:32:20

you go home and study the book?"

492

: 00:32:22

And I'm like, "No.

493

: 00:32:23

I listen and I write, I listen and

I write, I listen and I write," and

494

: 00:32:27

that is the way that I learn best.

495

: 00:32:29

it's the kinesthetic thing for me that

allows me to retain information the best.

496

: 00:32:34

And even when we're having these

conversations, though, I've learned,

497

: 00:32:39

with the support of Giorgia and being

on this podcast, I wouldn't be here

498

: 00:32:43

if it weren't for Giorgia, is really

being able to intently listen and

499

: 00:32:47

follow what the person is saying so I

can think, "Oh, I would have a great

500

: 00:32:52

question based off of what they just

said," or, "What I heard you say was…"

501

: 00:32:56

That is so perfect what you said

about being in that men's group.

502

: 00:33:01

Them reflecting and saying,

"What I heard you say was…

503

: 00:33:04

What I hear you saying is…"

504

: 00:33:06

Because oftentimes people

truly just want to be heard.

505

: 00:33:12

They don't want the fix.

506

: 00:33:14

They just want someone to listen.

507

: 00:33:16

Matt: That's what I, another- Idea or

knowledge that I've gained is before,

508

: 00:33:26

ask this question, are you looking for

advice, or are you looking for support?

509

: 00:33:30

There is nothing that drives me crazy than

somebody trying to give me advice when I

510

: 00:33:35

didn't ask for it, and I find that it's

usually men and women that are parents.

511

: 00:33:40

Those are the usually the

people that wanna give advice

512

: 00:33:44

And I always tell people, I get asked

that, I've been on 200 podcasts,

513

: 00:33:51

everybody asks me , to give advice

or what's one nugget that our

514

: 00:33:56

listeners should take away from this?

515

: 00:33:58

And my nugget is be authentic.

516

: 00:34:02

Be who you are.

517

: 00:34:05

Use the I statements

518

: 00:34:07

And be transparent

519

: 00:34:11

Giorgia: That's a lot of good advice.

520

: 00:34:13

Is there anything that you wanna

share that we haven't asked you yet?

521

: 00:34:20

Matt: My book is available on Amazon,

Bullied Behind Bars: A Gay Christian

522

: 00:34:23

Trump Supporter Goes to Prison.

523

: 00:34:25

If you buy my book, I'll

autograph it for you for free.

524

: 00:34:28

I'm available on Instagram,

bulliedbehindbars, Facebook,

525

: 00:34:34

matthew.melvin.5621.

526

: 00:34:37

X, barsbullied.

527

: 00:34:39

Reach out.

528

: 00:34:40

Email me, bulliedbehindbars@gmail.com.

529

: 00:34:43

Don't stay silent.

530

: 00:34:45

Men are five times more

likely to commit suicide

531

: 00:34:51

Talk about what's going on.

532

: 00:34:53

Do not isolate.

533

: 00:34:54

Get out of sports,

video games, television.

534

: 00:34:59

Engage in activities such as

swimming, dancing, cooking, gardening.

535

: 00:35:05

All of these activities move

your body and they will help

536

: 00:35:09

deal with any kind of stress or

anxiety that you're dealing with.

537

: 00:35:14

We did another activity at a men's

group and we were asked to pick up

538

: 00:35:18

four rocks, and they could be any size.

539

: 00:35:22

And we were asked to carry those

with us all the way to the end of the

540

: 00:35:26

weekend, and then the most important

task was get rid of the rocks.

541

: 00:35:32

And when I got rid of my burdens,

I threw them in the lake.

542

: 00:35:35

Other men gently put them down.

543

: 00:35:38

Guess what?

544

: 00:35:39

They're gonna gently pick them back

up as soon as we're done the weekend.

545

: 00:35:43

Everything that you do,

folks, should be intentional

546

: 00:35:50

Dawn: Yes.

547

: 00:35:51

I think that is such a

key takeaway right there.

548

: 00:35:55

Everything you do gets to be intentional,

and it's one thing that we talk about

549

: 00:36:01

because I'm actually writing a book on

language right now, is using the word try.

550

: 00:36:06

And if you've ever seen Star Wars,

Yoda tells Luke, "There is no try.

551

: 00:36:09

You do or you do not."

552

: 00:36:11

And this is where there's

intention versus not.

553

: 00:36:15

If I say I'm trying something, there's

no real intention to follow through.

554

: 00:36:19

If I say I am, and I use the example

of when people in the US, when I

555

: 00:36:24

would go home and visit, would be

like, "So are you learning Italian?

556

: 00:36:28

Are you speaking Italian?"

557

: 00:36:29

And I would say, "I'm trying."

558

: 00:36:30

I wasn't trying.

559

: 00:36:31

I was actually putting in the work.

560

: 00:36:33

Was I putting in work every day?

561

: 00:36:35

Was I putting in the work, once a week?

562

: 00:36:38

Depended on the week, in reality.

563

: 00:36:40

at the time I was very sick

quite often, and so I might

564

: 00:36:44

have missed a lot of classes.

565

: 00:36:45

At the same time, when I was

available, I was putting in the work.

566

: 00:36:49

It wasn't I was trying, I was doing it.

567

: 00:36:51

And it's really supporting us in

shifting our language to indicate

568

: 00:36:57

what it is that is our intention.

569

: 00:37:01

there are some times where Giorgia

will say, "I'm, purposely using

570

: 00:37:03

the word to try," and then whatever

she says following, I said, "Well,

571

: 00:37:07

you could have just said the

verb you used because it works."

572

: 00:37:13

And so I just…

573

: 00:37:14

That really hits home for me

when you say be intentional.

574

: 00:37:19

Be intentional.

575

: 00:37:20

it's so, so powerful.

576

: 00:37:23

and I so appreciate that you

gave us all the different ways

577

: 00:37:26

that people can reach out to you.

578

: 00:37:28

They can get your book.

579

: 00:37:29

we're gonna have all the links in

the show notes for all of this.

580

: 00:37:33

And Giorgia, I think you have a question.

581

: 00:37:36

Giorgia: Yes.

582

: 00:37:37

I have one last question for you, and

it's what's one way that our listeners

583

: 00:37:43

can start unleashing their freedom today?

584

: 00:37:48

Matt: Loving themselves,

forgiving themselves, not allowing

585

: 00:37:52

somebody's bad day to ruin theirs.

586

: 00:37:56

Dawn: Love it.

587

: 00:37:57

Absolutely love it.

588

: 00:37:58

Thank you so much today, Matt.

589

: 00:38:00

sharing this interview with you, having

this time with you is such a gift.

590

: 00:38:04

Thank you.

591

: 00:38:04

Thank you.

592

: 00:38:05

Matt: Thank you very much